RMS, you have a marketing and education problem at hand.

It is not about being wrong about selling what you sell. If it were the case, people wouldn't be buying coffee and tobacco.

The problem is you're selling a drug. Legal or illegal, you are selling it on the basis of "this is a drug, but this is not so bad. This is no way to try to win a customer. People will stop listening before the but, if you keep trying to defend yourself.

The marketing issue: don't push it to people that are not looking for a drug. Go for those that want to listen. Can you provide free samples for students that need to study hard for midterms? Party-goers?

The education issue: find other uses of it. Does it make good tea? Would it work for someone that would want to quit tobacco? Keep a blog, find people that are already interested in what you have and let them do word-of-mouth for you.

But, please, do understand that posting about it here frequently won't help you much. Once, it is ok. More than that, you start to become an annoyance.

I have never modded you down; until today, I'd never run across one of your comments mentioning kratom. However, here's why I think people might be modding you down:

Frankly, and with respect, you sound like a crank and, on this subject, you are a bore. I'm bored of the subject based only on a comment of yours I read today, and the few posts I could stand to read on this thread.

I have no time to evaluate your claims, which are indistinguishable from the claims of 100s of bullshit products. I might be missing out on some wonder-substance, but I know I'll waste my life if I look into every thing that someone promotes as a wonder-substance. So, I'd rather spend my time thinking about things that interest me (code, money, women) and I suspect others, similarly inclined, are responsible for the down-mods.

You seem like a bright guy, but I think this topic is unwelcome, as evidenced by the down-modding. I suggest you drop it.

If you were a pharmaceutical company, and you did the appropriate, properly controlled clinical trials to demonstrate that this stuff is both safe and effective, then it would be OK.

Until you do that, you're walking a fine line between being a snake-oil salesman and a drug dealer.

could you please stop advertising (albeit usually indirectly or offhand) this shit on here?

There is a difference between a drug pusher and a pharmaceutical company. Both groups reap huge profits at the expense of their customers/victims, but the difference is this:

The pharmaceutical company says "Product A could help you with Symptom B. Why not talk to your doctor about it? Be forewarned, side effects can include fever, paranoia, and death."

The drug pusher says "Product A could help you with Symptom B. It's a great product! Why not buy some from me!"

I've seen you promote kratom on this site several times, and this is the first time I've ever seen you mention side effects and the need to speak to a physician. Recreational drug use should ALWAYS be discussed with a competent physician.

In addition, while kratom is currently legal in the US, it is illegal in the region of the world from which it originates. The US DEA says "there is no legitimate medical use for kratom in the U. S." and has placed it on its list of "drugs and chemicals of concern". You would do well to inform your prospective customers of these facts.

Lastly, I believe you misinterpreted the post to which you replied (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=71262). Xichekolas wasn't talking about the benefits of alcohol or caffeine; he was pointing out the downsides to chemically altering your brain function, and then you come along promoting kratom. Take a step back and try to realize how this looks to the rest of us.

O'Reilly's "Javascript: The Definitive Guide 5th Edition" by David Flanagan teaches Javascript really well including Ajax and DOM.

The first half of the book is a Javascript tutorial while the rest is a language reference. Good book.

You title your post with "is it wrong to..." and then you go and ramble for the most part about

"Would kratom be ok if I was a pharmaceutical company and I told you that Kratom could help you lose weight, be happy, and be more productive? It is an incredibly viable alternative to oxycontin for pain management. How about as an alternative to SSRIs/Benzodiazepines as an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication? How about that kratom can seriously enhance productivity, more so than caffeine but less so than amphetamine and with fewer side effects than either?"

That looks like a disguised advertisement to me. If you want to advertise your startup that's fine, but that's different from trying to sell people a specific product on this site. If I created a site to sell cars I can mention it on YC. If however I kept posting about the benefits of this particular car that you should buy from me people would get upset as well. If you want cheap advertising find it somewhere else.

Make sure to wear some flowers in your hair.

In that same vein, how would we know what to tell you if you don't show us anything?

Generic advice: Get a lot of feedback from a lot of people.

Tabacco had been used for thousands of years before we understand more about its cancer risks. You haven't mentioned how you arrived at the beneficial uses of the drug either. Claiming similar efficacy to mainstream pharmaceuticals without similar proof is unethical.

You don't think people should use kratom without their doctors advice? How many of your customers do you genuinely believe are acting on the advice of their medical professional? I think suggesting that they should get a doctors opinion purely on the basis that it might indemnify you or give your claims legitimacy is pretty unethical.

I don't think there's anything wrong with selling Kratom, as long as you make it clear that it hasn't gone through clinical trials, has known side effects, etc... And you do seem to be very conscientious about pointing those things out. So if customers aren't being misled, what could the problem possibly be? That other non-customers dislike your product and don't want anyone to have it? Fuck them.

Someone commented saying we have drug trials for good reason, and you may be selling something unsafe. That person should not be in charge of other people's lives. Let your customers decide for themselves. Anyone who wants only officially regulated drugs is free to buy only those, and other people can make up their own mind about what is safe/cheap/tested/etc enough for them. If people prefer to buy your product then you are helping them by their own lights, so be proud.

Didn't we just cover this? Yes, yes we did: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=61311