Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | Avicebron's commentslogin

Came here to say this. If you want to find someone who has teleported to food, head to a Waffle House or Denny's at 2 am in a college town.

So allowing someone to sign themselves into slavery should be "legal" because it's "impinging on someone's right to enter contracts"? I get that some people balk at "morally reprehensible" as some sort of slippery slope, but c'mon we as individuals have to function somewhat coherently. As a social species reliant on some form of social cohesion (how much oil did you refine this morning?) we have to have some guidelines.

Fwiw, I think making such non-disparagement clauses illegal is an interesting idea, and could be a net positive. That said, I think the slavery comparison is a stretch. The situation up for debate is: Should you be able to voluntarily accept money in exchange for promising not to say bad things about someone or some company? I don't see a good faith interpretation of that as "signing yourself into slavery".

Nobody was trying to equate non-disparagement clauses with slavery. The relevance of slavery here is as an example of the kind of contract terms that everyone should be able to agree are rightly invalid and unenforceable. Any argument in favor of contract enforceability that would apply to a slavery contract just as easily as it applies to a non-disparagement contract is a bad argument, or at least woefully incomplete. Bringing up slavery serves as a necessary reminder that the details and nuance of the contract terms and their effects need to be discussed and argued, and that an unqualified "contracts should be valid" position is untenable and oversimplified.

The general principle is that you shouldn't be able to "sign away" something that's a constitutional or human right. Like the right to freely speak, the right to practice a religion, the right to be paid for work, and so on. Imagine if the severance contract specified that she had to convert to Islam in order to get her severance, or that she had to sacrifice a child. No court in the country would consider those clauses conscionable. Yet, somehow companies are allowed to gag your free speech as a condition in a contract? It makes no sense why this is allowed.

Everyone who has a job that requires them to speak for their employer signs away their “free speech” right to an extent. Your proposal would not lead to a tenable system.

This is legalized buying people off, yes these contracts ought to be illegal and the comparison to slavery (a worse, but same category of morally reprehensible power dynamic) is completely valid

> Fwiw, I think making such non-disparagement clauses illegal is an interesting idea, and could be a net positive. That said, I think the slavery comparison is a stretch.

Arguably, its more like non-compete agreements but with the added fact that state enforcement of the agreements is in tension with freedom of speech.

But, you know, lots of jurisdictions sharply restrict enforceability of non-competes, too.


Legally, your "slavery" distinction is not the same thing as agreeing not to speak a certain way about a company. Slavery implies that you can be forced to do things that you do not want to do, as it is inclusive of future decisions by the other party. Agreeing to not so some specific action, while it does bind you from future freedoms, is exclusive of any other action the party may wish you to undertake. (IANAL)

We already recognize that contracts that violate one party's fundamental human rights cannot be enforced because they "shock the conscience", in terms that American jurists use. This article does not include the terms of the non-disparagement clause, or the other terms and payments, so we can't really say whether the clause is vulnerable to being ruled unenforceable by courts. But it's wrong to say that nobody can enter into contracts that constrain their speech. People do that all the time.

I mean it is currently legal in most countries to do that.

Read about record contracts. Prince spoke extensively about his restrictive contracts.


CPI-U is deceptive and misses the point entirely, cheap t-shirt and televisions don't matter when people can't afford healthcare or housing.

> The US has an obligation to its citizens

In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.


I wouldn't call it seditious.

It's actually exploitative, on both ends but one worse than the other.

H1Bs wind up feeling forced to work far more hours than they should, but then it adds pressure to any in-house employees to work more than they should too.

It's extra evident in the people that go from H1B to full citizenship, they often never learn to just take a break, sometimes to their own detriment.


Overworking H1Bs isn't what people are concerned about (yes it's an issue and part of the problem because it's an extra incentive). Importing people to supplant the local talent who are more than capable of doing the work, widening the labor pool to weaken labor's power, claiming it's "meritocracy" and that everyone who doesn't agree is somehow racist or "illiberal" are the core issues.

Nailed it.

> the cost of everything thanks to a poorly planned war against Iran.

The war in Iran doesn't help at all. But it's a much broader problem.


We do. But the relative purchasing power and command over purchasing essentials for a middle class life from 1969 to now has shifted so dramatically people are not comfortable enough to care.

I don’t know why this is down voted but I think this is the answer for the majority of people.

The real fear is that they don't solve any of the problems that caused this in the first place... it's not about some vindictive punishment, it's about solving the problem.

I beg to differ, as I see it, it's both. Solving the problem necessarily entails punishing the malicious actors attempting to subvert and demolish our governance, justice system, society and way of life. Allowing Jan 6th to go unpunished at the highest levels was a key factor in what brought us here.

> demolish our governance, justice system, society and way of life

"Our" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. There were many "ours" whose ways of life, governance, and society were destroyed on the road to making the Jan 6th thing possible..


That's true, I was referring to the United States.

> directly gain money based on already having money.

I'm stealing this.


have you tried salt and muscle relaxants?

The machine sounds more like a Hobbesian Leviathan than a god for what it's worth

Yes, I believe the OP is responding to the books suggestion that returning to religion is part of the solution.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: