Sad story. War is sad. 2 countries in a war that cannot end otherwise.
Its either Palestine or Israel unfortunately.
Put your good will and emotions somewhere it can actually make a sensible difference guys
Did you serve in Army? Do you know war from first account? Did your country take part in a war in the last decade? Or is it proxies who fight your wars? Its independence war for Israel everyday since its 1948.
Israel, West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon - all contain a majority/big minority of Palestinians - yet only Israel and Jordan effectively impose law and sovereignty over them.
PA cannot deal with their own radicals. I mean, they actually hand out prizes to shaheed's families. They loves this guerilla war equation. Its good for the Palestinian cause apparently cause they keep doing it for years now.
But somehow no momentum is gained by the Palestinian movement, and nobody dares to suggest its because their head is stuck we-know-where. And this applies to West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon.
Somehow most Israeli Arabs AKA Israeli Palestinians do not have a radical/resentful sentiment towards the Zionist idea. Some even serve in army, or do national service. Some have houses I can dream of. But yeah right, lets blame the Jews.
This picture you paint with big words, holds no grasp in the Middle East reality. Its a Eurocentric perspective, mostly held by people in countries which fight their wars via proxies. Its non pragmatic for Palestinians, and only serves Europeans. As evidence you can see how far the Palestinian cause has progressed in last decades.
But in the early 21st century Europe is currently in the back seat, sits, learns and questions: How does Israeli economy is thriving even though they have so many active conflicts?
And I'll answer what you do not even dare to think of: only a righteous cause can fight such war and have the upper hand.
Its independence war for Israel everyday since its 1948.
It is not an independence war, it is colonialization and occupation. And the Zionists at the time knew that and used this terminology themselves. 1948 was not an independence war, it was the preliminary culmination of the attempt to occupy and annex Palestine into a Jewish state against the resistance of the Palestinians. And the residence against this illegal act has continued to this day.
I'm not even surprised. In any company's lifecycle, at some point, a decision between money and good-will will take place. Good will does not pay salaries. Not in NPOs either btw.
This report presents sober technical analysis combined with witness testimony, creating an extremely concincing whole. It's not biased in any direction except the truth.
I like Forensic Architecture’s work in general and I think this report is valuable as a micro-level reconstruction of a specific incident.
That said, I think a lot of the HN discussion is treating it as if it captures the broader complexity of the conflict and I’m not sure thats what it can realistically do, at most, it leaves a lot of room for speculations - speculations which are fed by already existing bias of the reader (or so I see in the comments).
A few gaps that matter if we’re trying to reason beyond the single event:
Framing / conclusion baked in: terms like “executions” and “concealment” may ultimately be correct, but they’re also strong legal/moral claims that can bias interpretation unless the alternative hypotheses are seriously stress-tested. Its a dead giveaway of the writers bias. From this point on it looks like most biased readers do not try to critically tackle the reports claims.
Limited “steelman” of operational context - without full access to military comms, ISR feeds, ROE, intel context, and command decisions in real time, it’s hard to evaluate what soldiers believed they were responding to (even if they were wrong, negligent, or violating orders). Its a known practice that Hamas militants travel undercover using civilian/emergency vehicles - I think its really pathetic this report does not analyze nor even addresses this claim. This is not being objective, and most of you guys here are too critical-thinking to miss this one out (or is it a bot swamp here? i really dont know).
Evidence asymmetry - open-source reconstructions can be rigorous, but they inherently rely on what’s available (videos/audio/witness accounts). That’s different from having the complete internal dataset that would settle key disputes. I know this is the best effort available, but still, it leaves a lot of room for speculation. My expectations of FA were higher than that.
Conflation risk - a brutal case study can be an important data point, but it’s not automatically a comprehensive model of the war or the incentives/constraints on both sides.
“Here’s a detailed claim about what happened at Tel al-Sultan on that night.” would be a correct title for this report.
Curious what you think: what specific pieces of primary data would most change your confidence/speculations here? (e.g., full comms logs, drone video, ROE brief for that unit, chain-of-command timeline, etc.)
propaganda bots are working extra time on this post huh.
A decolonization attempt can be skewed into looking like 'oppressing' the colonizers themself.
The Internet does not even exist for 30 years and its already such a dangerous weapon of mind destruction
I'm a windows user since I was 5. My favorite OS. both for home and for professional environment. Seems that Windows 11 will be the last Microsoft OS I'll ever use
Same since I was 3. Windows 2000, XP, 7. With 8 it was obvious they didn't believe in personal computing anymore, for me that was the end of the "Decade of Windows Desktop". I'm naive cause I did and switched to Linux without looking back
