Just to be clear, Python is doing this because they want to. Also, there is no reasoning in the post, which is odd to me. I have always used the exe to install Python and I didn't see anything wrong with it.
> Just to be clear, Python is doing this because they want to.
No. They don't. The story is more or less like this: ten-fifteen years ago Python community started to change. The change was heavily influenced by the inflow of newcomers. It was a very similar story to the "eternal September". Too many new people entered the field. Old-timers didn't feel comfortable in the new environment and started to leave. The leave was accelerated by the newcomers being in Python for the clout and not for what the language had to offer, therefore becoming further hostile to the old-timers.
There was also Microsoft, embedding its people in positions of power within the community. Using all the usual techniques, like creating "rules of conduct", then blaming the old-timers for violating them, then kicking them out. Then they changed the platform for discussion of the language that allowed the people who enacted this "bloodless coup" to silence the dissent to the point they are able now to pretend dissent doesn't exist.
So, "want to" is... very contentious here. The people Microsoft put in charge of Python? -- Yeah, they probably want this, as this ensures tighter integration with proprietary tools, less freedom for people using the language. It's great! People who follow those installed by Microsoft? -- Yeah, they want this in the sense that they don't know any better. They were told it's a good thing, that it's something they should want, and so they don't know any better than to want it.
But, suppose and the people who have to deal with this change were intelligent enough to understand the consequences and to see the general direction the things are going? -- They wouldn't want it. This is the kind of "want" like the one you have with sweet carbonated drinks. Do people want them? -- Absolutely! Should they want them? -- Well, probably not...
So, there are different "shades" of "want". In some superficial way, Python programmers on MS Windows do want this and similar changes. But, in a more fundamental way they don't, even though had you run a poll, you'd get a different response.
Oh god, the speed limit sign reading. I was in a rented car (a Ford) and it basically spent the entire trip beeping. I didn’t spend time investigating, as it wasn’t my car, but I hope that can be disabled…
Oh, I actually own a Ford - not sure if that's configurable or different depending on models, but I've never heard a beep related to the sign reads. (Or many beeps in general... the only place I regularly get it to beep is when I'm backing up very close to things.)
> The moderation of this website is downright shameful.
It's more like a series of tradeoffs compared to other platforms when it comes to features and userbase tendencies, and none are perfect. Every platform sucks in some way.
Also, users (and user bots) do the flagging here, not moderators.
Yes, the fact that the paid moderators of the site let the users do the work for them so they don’t have to work themselves is one of the shames of the moderation of this site, but there’s much more.
You sure seem to have an axe to grind with this site in particular, when in reality it is not wholly better or worse than any other social media / discussion platform. In fact, in some ways it's somewhat innovative with some really simple ideas that help distinguish it from the rest.
I don't know why you think moderators should work for free. That's up to the platform to decide.
Also, I'd take the lenience found on HN any day over the ban hammer / shadow ban / user siloing approaches that others sites cave to. As we've seen, there is no perfect approach.
I'm glad we agree on the first point, and sorry if I misunderstood you on that.
As for shadow banning, yes it is employed here on occasion, but I'm speaking strictly from my own experience with the site. I regularly take large steaming shits on various capital interests in favor of the hacker ethos, and so far it has always been permitted (and is not hard to verify it isn't shadow banned). That this site is the child of SV monied interests says at least something positive about their tolerance for these things compared to other sites like X/reddit/bluesky who all have the groupthink/echo chamber concept polished quite well by now.
They shouldn’t allow users to moderate the site, even if it means longer response times to remove spam, since it very commonly leads to the users abusing that power to remove things that they do not like even if they do not break the rules. That happens very often and the moderators are okay with it because allowing users to remove other users’ content so it goes with the “editorial line” of the commenters of the site lowers dissent and therefore they have to work less.
Grok is as progressive as any of the other models. Despite some of the highly-publicised fuck-ups, try asking Grok anything racist and see how it replies. Yes, I know you didn't try this and you won’t.
Isn't grok currently holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM? Or did they change focus to enhance their racism and propaganda vertical? Things move so quickly these days hard to keep up!
Yes any company generating csam should not be in business as a legitimate entity. Can you send me a link from a reputable enough source where Mistral models have done this? I didn't even realize they were doing image generation.
> Yes any company generating csam should not be in business as a legitimate entity.
At the same time, in this corner of the world, acting Minister for Justice (also known for trying to push through Chat Control), and NGO Save the Children, have been working to make legal the generation of CSAM for law enforcement use. So that would certainly make the industry legitimate, and you would already have a customer.
I think they key point here is "for law enforcement". That's a little different from "pay me 10 dollars and enjoy the felonies". I still don't feel good about that by the way.
If I send you a convo I've had with Mistral and Claude Sonnet 3.7 that say atrocious things (how to scam, and get away with it, by exploiting dating websites in Thailand, you don't even want to know the next steps trust me when it talks about the UK incorporation by the Thai itself that you brainwash first to send packages safely without customs seizing it and so on), you'll then publicly recognize that both those companies should be avoided and are promoting crime? If we have a deal and you publicly acknowledge it, I'll share you the links.
> Isn't grok currently holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM?
I'm not sure I see how that's possible, given their image/video generation seems to be heavily censored. Do they have some alternative product besides "Imagine" or whatever it's called, that people use for generating CSAM?
Judging by https://old.reddit.com/r/grok (but I haven't validated it myself), it seems like people are complaining more about how censored the model is, than anything else, maybe that's not actually true in reality?
There are image models out there with 0 restrictions, even available on HuggingFace or CivitAI, I'm guessing those are way more widely used for things like CSAM than any centralized platform with moderation.
> Please don't validate any of this personally that would be illegal.
Obviously, I assumed we all are familiar with our local laws to not unwittingly commit crimes here :)
> I think the proportion of people generating images that way is likely very low
So probably a far cry from "holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM" given the amount of local alternatives available? Would be my guess at least, but obviously also hard to know for sure.
> Though I am sure it is possible.
How can you be sure of this? I've tried just now to get Grok to generate even sexually explicit material with adults, and it's unable to, all of the requests are getting moderated and censored. Are you claiming that instead of prompting "A man and a woman having sex" you put "A man and a child having sex" and then the moderation doesn't censor it? Somehow I find that hard to believe, but as you say, I'm not gonna test that either, so I guess we'll never know for sure.
I have no idea what people are doing to get it to generate illegal content. I only know there are thousands of cases of it via articles about it. I have not, and will not use grok as a product.
> I have no idea what people are doing to get it to generate illegal content.
Isn't that relevant to somehow know those things before you say stuff like "I am sure it is possible"? Seems bit strange to first confidently claim you know something then saying you actually have no idea.
Not doubting that it used to be true, that people could generate CSAM, I just don't see how it's possible today, because it seems heavily censored for any explicit/adult content.
Model A advocates for single-payer healthcare, while Model B prefers for the current US healthcare system. So on that one axis, A is more progressive than B. Neither of them needs to be racist for that calculation.
100% agree. Grok may or may not be biased one way or the other as far as the US is concerned but from the rest of the world perspective it's mostly the same as any other model trained on Wikipedia.
it's here to increase visibility of the ycombinator brand, it's startups, and the technologies related to what they do. discussions around it were going to happen anyway, so own those and shape.
create an ecosystem, and then mold / skim / ingest / bask in it.
it's the same reason why BigCorps try really, really hard to get ownership / mod control of subreddits, and/or having their marketing assets responding to discussions in their sub or elsewhere.
Good luck finding any objective distinction between HN, Reddit, WhatsApp, Signal, or email + listserv and "social media"!
Or finding any one of "social media's harms" that could not, in some world where Facebook, Instagram, and Tiktok did not exist, be delivered in just as socially harmful (and beneficial) a form by sufficiently-accessible versions of the apps and protocols you value and use every day.
I met someone recently whose primary addiction is Wikipedia.
For me, Signal and Hacker News are the most addictive pieces of software I still use.
Serial television (best delivered by WebTorrent and The Pirate Bay) is by far the most addictive, for me, so much so that I had to quit.
And you can definitely run successful social movements and political campaigns (for both very good and very bad things) over HN or WhatsApp/Signal, given sufficient adoption.
