As a maintainer of an RSS reader app which has its own inventory for suggested feeds, one of the uphill battles is sudden removal of RSS support from various sites. I have a list of feeds which are updated once a month and everytime some sites (both niche and big ones) drop RSS support (Reuters and YouTube removing option to export subscriptions as OPML are major blows in last few months).
The reason for these removals is also never given. If you look at those sites now, you'd feel RSS support never existed and nobody used them. So the reason for removal could be anyone's guess. Perhaps RSS icon didn't look good with other social media icons on home page, server serving the RSS feed shut down and no one bothered to check, forgot to add RSS option in new design/refactor or some PM didn't find RSS feed engaging enough and actively killed it.
> Perhaps RSS icon didn't look good with other social media icons on home page
If web browsers didn't stop supporting RSS, that icon would not be needed in the first place. We used to have a standard HTML header to advertise the presence of RSS feeds, and the RSS icon was displayed by the browser, next to the URL bar, always at the same place, accessible by everyone including Grandma™.
Perhaps people working for these publishers forget about it, maybe there are bugs or small maintenance issues, and they opt to remove support rather than fix it or monitor it for issues.
These are still four more steps then what it takes to directly install from the Play Store. Most people would view any of these four steps as hurdle.
> And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.
You will still have to find the apk when there is an update, download it and confirm install. There are still three steps to update the apk compared to Play Store's one tap (or even zero clicks if automatic updates are on). Only "Allow installing from this source" step is removed when updating the app.
It's possible to build self-update functionality into an app, just like many apps do on desktop. An app can open that installation prompt to update itself.
Not on the latest versions of Android, unless you're only updating interpreted code like Python. You can no longer execute files that weren't packaged with the original APK.
You can download an apk and launch the package installer activity to install it. In latest versions of Android, you'll need to serve the apk through a ContentProvider. I tested this myself, it works, even if the app is updating itself.
But I think you can actually still load arbitrary dex files using a ClassLoader? I thought that the update was only affecting JNI libraries. I remember reading how they wanted for any and all executable code to come from a signed package. Even then, if you're determined enough, you can load arbitrary native code by allocating some rwx memory pages and copying it in there ;)
Yeah I misinterpreted your original comment. I was thinking in terms of the app being in control of itself ie JNI type stuff.
Sounds like there are ways to do it within the Android ecosystem, but in cases where Google is suspending things wouldn't they just turn off all the self-update stuff?
Google doesn't have the technical ability to "turn off all the self-update stuff", if you mean preventing non-store apps from updating themselves by downloading and installing apks. The worst thing they can try doing is bullying the users into uninstalling the app through Google Play Protect.
I'm not deep enough in the Android ecosystem to understand all the details. I've only had the misfortune of trying to get a (very portably-written) golang application to run in the environment, and hitting roadblock after roadblock.
I guess my overall point is that Google is motivated to have complete control over Android app distribution, and they'll plug as many of the types of holes you're talking about as they can get away with.
We have created a privacy focused, ad-free, material designed RSS reader app for Android - Plenary. No login/account creation required. No analytics/trackers. No ads. No servers to store your data.
Main obstacle when introducing new users to the world of RSS feeds is the discovery of new feeds. Plenary tries to solve this in novel ways:
Local News:
Select a country and Plenary will show a list of top news sources for that country. Tapping on any news source will open a webpage containing all the RSS feeds available of that source.
RSS Assistant:
Create RSS feed from top sites such as Reddit, Google News, YouTube, Medium, Wordpress, Wikipedia, Tumblr in 2-3 simple steps (some of the assistant options are part of Plenary premium)
Recommended Feeds:
Curated list of more than 200+ recommended feeds spread across various categories which include Programming, Technology, Web Development, Android Development etc
There is also full support of OPML import/export. So if you are already using any RSS reader, it's simple to get started.
Plenary can also be used as a complete offline article downloader app (similar to Read it later apps) and a Podcast player. Other features of the app include searching, filtering, backup/restore on Google drive/Dropbox, YouTube playback support, custom syncing intervals, notifications, multiple theming options etc.
Please try them out and let us know your feedback!
You can disable these annoying prompts by going to https://myaccount.google.com/permissions and disabling "Google Account sign-in prompts". Ideally it should have been user opt in but Google followed dark pattern here.
This implies that Google already knows that it's you when it shows the sign-in prompt on some 3rd party website and they are already tracking you there even though you are not signed in. Lovely. Not that you'd expected anything else from Google.
Yes, the pop-up is for signing into the site with your already-signed-in Google account. If you're not logged in then you use the site's default login mechanism.
Of course they do. It uses an IFrame request to the Google.com domain (so that the "host" website doesn't see any details before you login). Google can however see who you are because your auth cookies and what-not will be sent along with that Iframe request on whatever host website decides to use this pattern. See: Medium
A further issue with this is that Google knows you're on that website because the referrer and request headers will have that on the IFrame request.
Just to be totally clear, this is how tracking cookies work everywhere. The site you visit includes an iframe with an ID "X" that identifies itself, the iframe loads `trackingsite.com?id=X`, the request includes your cookies for that domain (or at least the ones that are allowed for an iframe request), now `trackingsite.com` logs a visit to Site X from the user holding Cookie Y.
There's a fundamental conflict between privacy and convenience, because I have to either allow no third-party cookies, which means no one can embed any authenticated content from a third-party context (think Disqus comments on a blog), or I have to allow third-party tracking. The middle ground -- allowing some third-party cookies but not others -- is a UX nightmare. Just trying to explain the situation to an average user, at all, is nearly impossible, much less interrupting every visit to every site with "Can I use cookies from {site 2} here? How about {site 3,4,5...112}?".
I've been fiddling with ublock on how to disable this. would've never guessed about the settings in google account. this should've been disabled by default or an option on the pop-up to permanently disable it.
I mean, the simple answer is because they're trying to spread the use of Google login, make it ubiquitous, so they can own all authentication mechanisms too as if owning everything else isn't enough.
You can try my app Plenary - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spians.ple... which perfectly suits your needs. It doesn't have ads or tracking and doesn't require an account. Plenary is combination of RSS reader and offline article downloader with built-in support for podcasts. Check it out and let me know if it works for you!
We've created an RSS feed and offline reader app for android that doesn't show ads/track your activity. The app is a combination of a feature rich RSS reader, minimalist podcast player and an offline article downloader (similar to read it later apps). The app has novel ways to add RSS feeds and has an offline first strategy.
Please try out the app and let us know if you have any questions or what you'd like to see in coming versions!
Freely/Palabre/Flipboard user, and long time feed consumer. I've used Plenary for about an hour, some thoughts...
1. Needs an option to use Firefox as the browser, rather than using Chrome. And an option to open externally or a within the app.
2. Needs an option for the article title link to take me straight to the article. Yep, I could click the link icon, but it's a smaller area and clicking the title is intuitive.
3. When there's no thumbnail, the large placeholder with two letters and a garish background colour feels like wasted space. Either remove the placeholder, or improve the algorithm to insert an image.
4. A zoom slider for the front page grid would be nice. On a tablet there's plenty of layout optimization that could be done.
5. Duplicate link removal, and across different sites/domains/social networks
6. Some trend analysis to determine what's most important to read out of thousands of articles daily
Overall, it's already better than most of the existing feed readers out there IMO. But if you want my money, you gotta have every one of those feature enhancements checked.
1. Plenary doesn't use Chrome as the browser (it uses Android WebView that uses chrome engine internally). We didn't go with custom tabs as we wanted more control on the interactions with WebView. You can open links externally or within the app (If you have premium, you can open your preferred domain urls externally as the main action).
2. Are you talking about opening article externally as the main action?
3. Sure we will improve the algorithm to find the image and also look into removing the placeholder if image is not present.
4. It would be great if you can elaborate more on "zoom slider for the front page grid". Yes, Plenary is currently not fully optimized for tablet experience. That is one area we need to work more on.
5. Because of the way Plenary is designed, everything it does; from fetching, combining and storing feed data to showing it to the user; is done on your mobile device. Catching duplicate content links is hard to implement in this case because that logic will also have to reside on the user device.
6. Same as point 5. Trend analysis is not possible because everything is done on your device. We don't have any server to store any user data.
Thanks again for your detailed feedback. Really appreciate it.
Yup. RSS is the way to go for browsing Reddit without all the dark patterns.
Self plug - you can try my app Plenary on Android (no ads/trackers) - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spians.ple... that has Reddit as one of the RSS Assistant option. It basically creates RSS feed for subreddits, users, search terms etc for you.
> Interestingly parent’s plug is a dark pattern to avoid dark patterns!
Sorry I didn't find any dark patterns here. If you can elaborate more on this, that would be really helpful.
> It’s also surprising that even on HN, a place where many people write software for a living, people are avoidant of advertising paid features.
Exactly! A lot of users want privacy focused - no ads apps. But many of them are hesitant to pay for it. For them, all apps should be FOSS (that means relying on good will of the developer that he will have motivation to maintain the app regularly or relying on some bug foundations) and no dev should generate revenue from their apps.
> Sorry I didn't find any dark patterns here. If you can elaborate more on this, that would be really helpful.
I don't think you were being malicious, but it would of been useful to know up front that those RSS features cost money is all. Otherwise I see nothing wrong in your initial comment.
You're right, I do want a FOSS solution and I'm hesitant to pay for something closed and controlled entirely by the dev.
But I am not opposed at all to pay for apps that include the source (and build instructions). I don't mind if it's licensed accordingly to prevent me redistributing it (which would undermine sales). I frequently buy apps like that.
More times than I can count I have bought an app that was later either abandoned when it stopped making money, or got an unwanted UI overhaul that wrecked it, or removed an obscure feature I depended on, etc. I will happily pay for software, but if it's not software I could potentially maintain myself then the amount of money I'm willing to spend goes way down and I'm a lot more hesitant to make the initial purchase.
> that means relying on good will of the developer that he will have motivation to maintain the app regularly or relying on some bug foundations
As opposed to paying for it which guarantees you'll get the service you want - except it doesn't.
At least FLOSS would give you and others the opportunity to fix bugs /maintain the app themselves.
> But many of them are hesitant to pay for it
Depends what it is. There's a difference paying for a non free app, and tipping for a free app.
Thank you for trying it out. Plenary has monthly, quarterly and yearly subscription options and even has a lifetime purchase plan. That is the way support the development of the app so that it doesn't have to rely on ads and works without any intrusions to users. That is the point of this post, right?
> We know that playing nice with others isn’t exactly your MO, but if you can’t offer people an open platform that brings everything together into one place and makes their lives dramatically simpler, it’s just not going to work.
Some people love teams, and it’s enough people to stifle the company from spending even more money; and, crucially, from having sensitive data spread across multiple companies instead of just one.
The reason for these removals is also never given. If you look at those sites now, you'd feel RSS support never existed and nobody used them. So the reason for removal could be anyone's guess. Perhaps RSS icon didn't look good with other social media icons on home page, server serving the RSS feed shut down and no one bothered to check, forgot to add RSS option in new design/refactor or some PM didn't find RSS feed engaging enough and actively killed it.