Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | throwbmw's commentslogin

It's not bad actually, considering how many times the new shiny thing has turned out to be quite dangerous a few years later. In a field as high stake as healthcare you want the whole spectrum, from early adopters to die hard skeptics. Especially since we know the reproducibility problem of research, the influence of big pharma and big insurance on healthcare, etc etc


What?


Because...you know...he stole the DNA discovery from Rosalind Franklin


Don’t forget the eugenics. Dude did an awfully thorough job of trashing his own reputation.


People shouldn't worry about accuracy too much. Everybody in healthcare knows about the problems in various measurement methods as well as individual responses to measurement anxiety and the physical and emotional state you are in that particular time. The only accurate measurements are direct measurements through an arterial catheter which is a very invasive procedure. Routine clinic measurements are used only to have a general idea about trend and secondly to catch severely high BP which is usually due to a secondary disease. Also, if BP is high above a certain limit it is significant regardless of if you took rest for 5 minutes and other precautions. Because if BP is high the normal BP regulating system should kick in and lower it regardless of the cause. With advancing age and hardened arteries this response becomes less optimal and you need the support of anti hypertensive medicines. You can see this in real time in patients under anesthesia. A young healthy patient would have an initial peak in response to pain or other surgical stimulus but they will be able to lower it either spontaneously or with minimal outside intervention. Whereas in older individuals much more effort is required to control and lower the BP. The general trend has been to treat both hypertension and diabetes early because the microvascular complications start much earlier before they become apparent clinically.


No, “everybody” in healthcare does not know this. I have learned to be skeptical and not to assume any particular level of statistical competence in the healthcare field.


Nurses/healthcare professionals often take the patient's blood pressure and heart rate just as soon as they enter the room after walking and moving about. Wait a few minutes and the measurement changes significantly, giving you a better indication of actual heart rate at rest.


I went in for a checkup and my doctor actually retested me after a few minutes because the first reading was unnaturally high. Hurrying into the office and the general anxiety of being in a hospital certainly raises it by a bit.


If they don't then the education system (and common sense) has failed them.


It's been failing a lot of people for a while then. At this point you can't assume competence.


I get the sentiment, but let me add one thing. Understanding statistics well is far from "common sense". In general, to operationalize statistics well, one has to both (a) train your mind quite carefully beforehand, and (2) slow down in the moment to make sure your rational thinking modes have traction.


I’m not sure how common sense factors in, but the education system has absolutely failed most providers that I’ve seen in the last 20 years.


Does the body of a patient under anesthesia react to (unfelt?) pain by raising blood pressure?


Wasn't there a recent article that said it was best to measure blood pressure lying down?


4-7 mm of inaccuracy is irrelevant.


> The only accurate measurements are direct measurements through an arterial catheter which is a very invasive procedure.

No. Accuracy isn’t all or nothing.

If one means “most accurate” then just say that.


Meta-analysis here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28750701/

There are also newer techniques, such as resonance sonomanometry: https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/caltech-team-develops-fir...


Agree 100 percent. Perhaps the present generation doesn't know about the early days of Wordpress. Also, all this wording may be because Matt is very committed and so emotional about the protection of open source projects





Excellent article. Practicing anesthesiologist of 25 years. Agree 100 percent with the problems highlighted in the article. These problems are increasing day by day with increasing algorithmization and protocolization of everything. So as the article mentions , there are two many individual variations and edge cases in day to day practice of medicine. An experienced doctor will have a a pretty good idea if following a protocol blindly can harm a patient but if they act on their experience and deviate from protocol they are open to liability even if the outcome was good. But I don't believe humanities education us the answer to this problem. It needs a system wide reset.


What's wrong with the simple solution, i.e., understanding when the algorithms apply and when they don't? For example, if an RCT shows that in-hospital initiation of all 4 of the heart failure GDMT's leads to reduced mortality compared to delayed initiation of GDMT, then you also have to learn that 97% of patients in the study had a baseline SBP of at least 97. Therefore, maybe you shouldn't start 4 BP-lowering meds on your HF patient with a baseline SBP of 86. If people learn when to apply rules, then I think you don't need humanities education and you don't need a system-wide reset either.


The issue isn’t the doctor knowing when to use the algorithm and when to deviate, but explaining that deviating from the algorithm was the right choice to the judge and jury in the subsequent lawsuit.


Please write a blog about it


I think people have difficulty in comprehending the risks just from having been presented data and not seeing or talking to somebody having complications. For example I work in healthcare and have never seen an Opthalmology consultant to chose these procedures for themselves or their family.


That’s practically been my canary.

Once the docs I know start doing it for themselves or their family, then I’ll consider it.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: