I've had two successful exits since the early 2000's, most recently one that of a company that I built, wrote the product for and sold to a company in 2014 (all modern web based stacks, technologies etc). The last one, I ran engineering which had 25 developers and we shipped a brand new product to market and I helped sell that company (the company that bought me out) to a larger company. All the while, still writing code, building product, etc.
I had a three year earn out, finished that and decided to get back into the workforce and get a job at a senior or above level (thinking Director, Manager, etc). Guess what, not only did my age hinder me (I'm 53), but my lack of CS math background seemed too in an interview process. Various interviews had me solving what I consider not only impractical, but almost silly puzzles / math problems that not only didn't apply to the company I was interviewing with, but didn't apply to anything real-world -- it felt like it was a way to:
- Weed me out because of my age
- Make the company seem like their vetting process was "Google like" and "trendy"
- Make the interviewer feel entitled or the company be "elite" in their process
Part of me realizes that some of this is to see how well someone problem solves. I get that.
However, I had one interviewee actually bungle up the questions, in fact, I had to point out at one point that it appeared that they described the problem wrong. When I got my answer wrong, and then asked for the answer, the interviewee clearly realized he setup the whole problem incorrectly.
Oddly enough, this is the part that bothers me the most. I've been asked many times for my GitHub. I have lots of solid examples to see my work. I've also been asked to do a programming challenge, which almost always I nail 100%. But it's always these "trap" CS challenges that I feel are used to eliminate someone based on either HOW they solve it or a way to justify them out and not hire them based on other factors (age, fit, etc.)
I actually had one that was a whiteboard session where the CTO asked me to solve the problem on the board "using code of your choice", so I stated, "Look, since I know multiple languages, I'll use pseudo code to walk through the problem and explain the answer"
When he described what he wanted me to solve (badly I might add), I wrote the pseudo-code on the board and described the problem as being solved by using regression. Which was 100% the right answer but because I chose to use pseudo-code not say, Python or JavaScript -- he told the recruiter, "he couldn't solve the problem I was looking for him to solve." When pressed by the recruiter about the solution, he gave a link to the problem in his Github, which of course was verbatim of what I described but in Python -- using regression.
What I've learned from this is that I should contract and consult. Most of these smaller companies want what they want in the way of an employee and are seeking the 10X developer, culture fit and someone in their own age group...
As has been said here many times, these puzzles test for corporate compliance, not for problem-solving ability. You're being assessed on your willingness to spend x months studying to a certain industry-wide norm, and to then pliantly follow interview instructions to reproduce one of the stock answers on demand in the format requested.
If you deviate from the rather arbitrary requirements you will be considered a no-hire.
Other industries have a formal study, exam, and professional certification process. Developers don't. [1]
In the absence of that, these interview play-throughs are treated as an ad hoc substitute. They're a passable fit for generic ass-in-chair juniors, but a very poor fit for anyone looking for good seniors or a CTO.
[1] In the UK you can become a Chartered Engineer via the British Computer Society. I don't think there's anything equivalent in the US, and I'm not sure how many shops in SV even recognise Chartered Engineer as a professional qualification.
Brilliant comment. Shouldn’t you be building startups yourself instead of trying to fit into these teams? I think your skill set speaks for itself.
Recently I joked with the interviewers over Skype screen sharing that I probably wouldn’t be fast enough to get a pair programming exercise done with 3 of them watching me. And that often these things you either see right away or struggle with. They all laughed and agreed.
I wanted to test a particular function after setting everything up, installing jest etc. But was told not to because deconstructing xpath was an implementation detail. No one could see what was wrong with my working and all three of them said it’s the way of working and not if you happen to get the answer on the day.
Of course they failed me saying I was too weak at programming. I won’t be doing coding over Skype screen sharing again and with more than one person in the room, it’s just too stressful and random.
I've done many startups and I have to say I love it, but the struggle to fund it properly (to it right) is what turns me off. I'd rather bootstrap myself (these days) and go the "indie hacker" route and not have to deal with fundraising -- build a product myself, sell it and roll it all on my own. That wasn't possible 20 years ago, it is now.
So yeah, I've focused on the executive level, CTO, VP, etc, But with that, you have to either give up coding and just manage or go to a tiny company to be the "key player", but then you're typically at a smallish company with little to no funding. I've been doing that lately, I'm at a small start up running engineering, but I'm an "employee", not a founder.
There seems to be a clear bias with VC companies against someone my age and background. Not to say I don't have a network I could probably work and get funding, I could. But I also wanted to get back to square one and work with people again and NOT have to deal with things like Healthcare, stock options and "hey, that person needs a week off because their cats sick." -- I'd rather just CODE and learn more, enjoy the art of buildings things without the pressure of an investor looming over you.
I've made enough money to be comfortable, but I still need to earn a living -- I haven't made that "FU" money and my wife laughs and jokes that for as much success we've had, even if I did get the "FU" money, I'd still want to work 70 hours a week and write code... ;-)
About your Skype coding comment. Yeah, new trend is to "pair" with someone online in an interview process and go through programming challenges. I'm OK with that, but I don't work well that way. I work better in a situation where I can think and spend the time myself on the problem. My brain isn't wired for "fast and rapid", it's more of a "trial and error" until I get it working, then later on optimize and make it better. I do terrible at that first pass, always been more of an interactive developer who starts with something that works and then over time perfects it. That style SUCKS on a pair programming exercise.
I had a three year earn out, finished that and decided to get back into the workforce and get a job at a senior or above level (thinking Director, Manager, etc). Guess what, not only did my age hinder me (I'm 53), but my lack of CS math background seemed too in an interview process. Various interviews had me solving what I consider not only impractical, but almost silly puzzles / math problems that not only didn't apply to the company I was interviewing with, but didn't apply to anything real-world -- it felt like it was a way to:
- Weed me out because of my age - Make the company seem like their vetting process was "Google like" and "trendy" - Make the interviewer feel entitled or the company be "elite" in their process
Part of me realizes that some of this is to see how well someone problem solves. I get that. However, I had one interviewee actually bungle up the questions, in fact, I had to point out at one point that it appeared that they described the problem wrong. When I got my answer wrong, and then asked for the answer, the interviewee clearly realized he setup the whole problem incorrectly.
Oddly enough, this is the part that bothers me the most. I've been asked many times for my GitHub. I have lots of solid examples to see my work. I've also been asked to do a programming challenge, which almost always I nail 100%. But it's always these "trap" CS challenges that I feel are used to eliminate someone based on either HOW they solve it or a way to justify them out and not hire them based on other factors (age, fit, etc.)
I actually had one that was a whiteboard session where the CTO asked me to solve the problem on the board "using code of your choice", so I stated, "Look, since I know multiple languages, I'll use pseudo code to walk through the problem and explain the answer"
When he described what he wanted me to solve (badly I might add), I wrote the pseudo-code on the board and described the problem as being solved by using regression. Which was 100% the right answer but because I chose to use pseudo-code not say, Python or JavaScript -- he told the recruiter, "he couldn't solve the problem I was looking for him to solve." When pressed by the recruiter about the solution, he gave a link to the problem in his Github, which of course was verbatim of what I described but in Python -- using regression.
What I've learned from this is that I should contract and consult. Most of these smaller companies want what they want in the way of an employee and are seeking the 10X developer, culture fit and someone in their own age group...