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This piece is linked in the article:

http://psychwatch.blogspot.com/2014/11/this-woman-went-on-to...

It is by the patient leveling these accusations. It paints an excellent picture concerning why I hate the "junkies and crazies" explanation for homelessness. Her care providers doped her to the gills to allegedly try to fix her while not really doing anything to help her.

If she had taken that much medication by choice without a prescription, she would be called a junkie. Defying her doctors to get off the drugs got her called delusional and accused of oppositional defiant disorder.

Prior to reading the above, I had a different line of thought in mind for commenting here. Sexual situations are incredibly complex and I generally dislike the way discussions of them typically go. In this case, I will suggest that's sort of the least of the issue. The amount of drugs she was on was potentially life threatening and I'm horrified we are only reading about this because her therapist had a sexual relationship with her.

We prescribe drugs too casually and pass out the label "junkie" too cavalierly. If you seek help for your problems and they don't really help you, they just dope you to the gills instead, is it any wonder we have a drug epidemic going on in the US?



Damn. This is brutal. She was abused as a child, later raped, then went through hell with psychiatrists, and then (!) Yensen exploited her and her therapist (Yensen's wife) failed her.

We prescribe drugs too casually (South Park's ritalin episode, the current opioid epidemic, young hiphop performers promoting Xanax) and at the same time the war on drugs is still going on, and the "establishment" doesn't really want to accept effective drugs that have "immoral" side-effects (eg. look at the story of how ketamine treatment for severe clinical depression went down, it passed FDA review, but it requires a separate clinic, it uses the "boring" version of the molecule, and thus might not even worth the cost).

That said, yes, every type of therapy has an enormous risk, because people lay their minds bare at someone's feet, expecting help, and this creates a situation with almost the vulnerability as a parent-child relationship. Abuse in these situations is terrible.

The rule of having a second therapist there (or just have a review session every half a year) is [ought to be] common sense. There's too much paperwork for drugs and too little real outside review/control. But that control factor has to be independent of the therapist. (For example in this case it was her husband. WTF. And yes, I know it's important to have someone the therapist can work with well, but that's exactly why it should be the other kind of control, where the patient gets debriefed in a 1-1 session.)


>We prescribe drugs too casually (South Park's ritalin episode, the current opioid epidemic, young hiphop performers promoting Xanax) and at the same time the war on drugs is still going on, and the "establishment" doesn't really want to accept effective drugs that have "immoral" side-effects (eg. look at the story of how ketamine treatment for severe clinical depression went down, it passed FDA review, but it requires a separate clinic, it uses the "boring" version of the molecule, and thus might not even worth the cost).

I was talking to someone recently about medical marijuana on our state. We have it, but it's supposedly a complex process. He brought up something about "having to exhaust all other treatments for a condition before trying for a medical card". I hope this isn't true, because it seems absolutely irresponsible to prescribe opioids or benzodiazepines for a conditon that could treated with a less dangerous drug.


The chemical balance of the brain is extremely complex and there is no way to know of the side effects. A lot of shootings in America can be linked to previous antidepressants usage for example.


I have the most critical eye towards psychiatry, but your claim about shootings being linked to previous antidepressant use would seem very difficult to prove true.

We would almost expect to see an antidepressants<>shootings correlation:

- mentally unwell people are given drugs

- mentally unwell people shoot other people.

That isn't causation.


There are plenty of studies where antidepressants are linked with increased aggression and violent behavior. Our brain is so complicated that what we call mental illness (e.g. depression, schizophrenia etc) usually is umbrella of different illnesses with different reasons with somewhat similar symptoms that are diagnosed under one label. That's why for one person one antidepresant is helpful, for another one different one. For some no drugs can help. He might also be depressed because he already has non-diagnosed cancer (one of cancer symptoms) or is poisoned with heavy metals. Or maybe something completely else. And it makes no surprise that if you throw antidepressants at someone who will react violently to it because of his current brain chemistry bad things will happen. Guns were available for long time in USA, would be interesting to see how antidepressant usage growth correlates with number of mass shootings over last 100 years...

Here is also interesting excerpt from the book "Nutrient Power: Heal Your Biochemistry and Heal Your Brain":

Most of the school shooters exhibited a unique and unusual history, compared to the thousands of behavior-disordered persons we have studied. A major difference is the absence of violent behaviors until the teen years, and many cases of excellent academics. Typically, the school shooters developed anxiety and depression after puberty and were treated with SSRI antidepressants. These drugs have helped millions of persons, but psychiatrists have known for years that a rare side effect involves development of suicidal ideation and in some cases homicidal tendencies. There is considerable published literature that indicates young males are especially at risk for this side effect. More than 90% of the school shooters we studied were treated with SSRI medications.

Mainstream psychiatry’s “treatment of choice” for depression is use of SSRI antidepressants aimed at increasing serotonin activity in the brain, perhaps coupled with counseling. However, as described in Chapter 6, depression is not a single condition but an umbrella term that encompasses several quite different disorders. Figure 6-3 shows the five major biochemical types of depression, including a low-folate phenotype that is associated with intolerance to SSRI medications. It seems likely that most school shooters had the low-folate form of depression and experienced an adverse reaction to antidepressant treatment.

These persons respond better to benzodiazepine medications, and also benefit from nutrient therapy to elevate folate levels. Another danger of antidepressant drugs is sudden non-compliance. There are several cases of school shootings in which the crime occurred soon after the offender stopped SSRI medication.

Recommendation: Doctors should perform blood tests prior to prescribing SSRI antidepressants for young males. Inexpensive blood testing for histamine, serum folate, and/or SAMe/SAH ratio can efficiently identify persons at risk for suicidal or homicidal ideation following use of SSRI antidepressants.


[flagged]


Could you provide an example situation to illustrate your point?


I think it is hard to argue that 'consent' that a woman gives you while you're her therapist who is giving her MDMA is valid in any sense.

MDMA is a wonder drug and absolutely magical. I have loved using it. But I, for one, behave way differently on it. There is absolutely no way I would consider consent someone gave me while they were on it valid in any sense.


I have no experience with MDMA but this seems like an extreme position. If you have sex with someone without their consent it's considered rape, so this line of thought would imply that everyone who's had sex with a person on MDMA is a rapist.

In the eyes of the law people can usually give consent while under the influence of drugs and alcohol (significant exceptions do apply, with the most common one being incapacitation).


Drugs or no drugs, it's illegal for a therapist to have sex with a patient. It's viewed as abusive of their position of power.

So the position isn't extreme in the slightest. It's widely agreed upon to the point of being codified into law in a lot of places.


I agree, but I was responding to this point made by my parent:

> There is absolutely no way I would consider consent someone gave me while they were on it valid in any sense.

Parent does not say anywhere that he/she is a therapist, this is the statement which seems extreme as it would criminalize all sex with people who are under the influence of MDMA.


That's a personal policy. People are entirely free to set a higher bar for consent for their own sexual encounters than we require legally.


That's a fair point. I think I implicitly meant the combination of factors like "consent they gave me on the drug that didn't have any precursor in pre-drug state and which involves me being sober and them high". If I gave someone the drug and I just sat there sober and they tried to get with me, I'm going to deflect that for sure 100%. It seems wrong to take advantage of that state. It's easy to deflect in a way that leaves it open for talking afterwards.

The equality of states and setting thing matters too. People on MDMA love touching and socializing and if we're both on it, we both know what we're going into, so I'm content (in my sober state describing my high) saying I'd let a lot of that happen because it's fun for us. There are things you sort of assume and which you sort of innocuously chat about where you figure out if they're experienced. It's not strictly speaking consensual when you're both on the drug, but you're not wholly absent. Obviously you don't mess with someone's first time on it, you give them a safe way to be happy without escalating interactions. But if they're experienced, then you can both play.


I’d wonder what the lawyers specializing in this sort of thing would say and what sort of debate there’d be around it. Because depending on the context, this is either sensible or insane.

Example A. My hypothetical partner and I are bored and we want to spice it up a little so we get some MDMA.

Example B. Your graduate advisor is bored, has a party where there’s lots of acid, and, oh, some MDMA too.

There’s no way in hell these situations are similar.


I think you both are saying the same thing.


The number of accusations of rape is absolutely tiny compared to the number of sexually active couples, which proves that "a lot of women" don't redact consent.


This comment is enlightened.


We've tried every drug we have and they all made the problems worse, but don't worry, we've got a new drug coming that will fix all of those problems. Ask your doctor about it.




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