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The Hawaiian islands were individual tribes until they were subjugated in a bloody war, with weapons and assistance from Americans: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamehameha_I#Unification_of_...

That’s why it’s possible to play “what about” all day long and not get very far. It’s almost always apples and oranges.

Ukraine isn’t Iraq or any other US military action. It doesn’t mean the US actions were good. It’s just too dissimilar to be an apples to apples comparison.

The closest apple I can think of is another European authoritarian leader, with bold threatening rhetoric and a strong nationalist identity who felt humiliated and threatened and decided to purge his opposition while promising other leaders he wouldn’t invade his neighbors before quickly annexing much weaker, non-aggressive neighboring countries that he thought lacked sufficient cultural and geographical distinction or were part of his country’s historical borders.

And a lot of people had regrets about not pushing back sooner on that guy and incorrectly trusting that he would stop after the first country or two.



> The Hawaiian islands were individual states until they were subjugated in a bloody war, with weapons and assistance from Americans

FTFY, but what's your point? Just about every state on planet earth came about through violence.


That is the point. There are no perfect countries to use as a moral compass, so we’re all making up and changing the rules as we go along. That’s why every country looks hypocritical depending on your timeframe and subject to endless (and fruitless) whataboutism.




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